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	<title>Comments on: More dispensaries than Starbucks</title>
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	<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/12/drug-policy/more-dispensaries-than-starbucks/</link>
	<description>Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.</description>
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		<title>By: serial catowner</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/12/drug-policy/more-dispensaries-than-starbucks/comment-page-1/#comment-35954</link>
		<dc:creator>serial catowner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:46:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9702#comment-35954</guid>
		<description>When you look at this in the total context of the insanity that is marijuana prohibition, the medical marijuana dispensaries are a tiny little piece of the picture.  This is what happens when the &quot;legitimate&quot; public discussion is closed.

Every major commission to have studied the matter has recommended legalization.  Every reliable scientific study has found the stuff is harmless.  Tens of millions of Americans over a period of decades have decided for themselves the stuff is harmless.

There are a variety of ways people could respond to such longstanding and senseless oppression, most of them not very pleasant.  In this case proponents for change are out in the open, making their pitch in the full glare of public opinion- and for this, they get criticized.

If the opponents of legalization had any real concern for the people they pretend to be protecting, they would say, &quot;Fine- sell marijuana to everyone who can demonstrate they are regularly seeing a doctor&quot;.  That would be a step up from seeing a doctor for five minutes to get a scrip, and more than adequate to safeguard against the incredibly low health risk of smoking marijuana, which of course can be vaporized or eaten when you&#039;re not paying blackmarket prices to buy it.

Sane systems generate sane responses, and, in this case, an insane system is generating a nutty response.  What did you think would happen?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you look at this in the total context of the insanity that is marijuana prohibition, the medical marijuana dispensaries are a tiny little piece of the picture.  This is what happens when the &#8220;legitimate&#8221; public discussion is closed.</p>
<p>Every major commission to have studied the matter has recommended legalization.  Every reliable scientific study has found the stuff is harmless.  Tens of millions of Americans over a period of decades have decided for themselves the stuff is harmless.</p>
<p>There are a variety of ways people could respond to such longstanding and senseless oppression, most of them not very pleasant.  In this case proponents for change are out in the open, making their pitch in the full glare of public opinion- and for this, they get criticized.</p>
<p>If the opponents of legalization had any real concern for the people they pretend to be protecting, they would say, &#8220;Fine- sell marijuana to everyone who can demonstrate they are regularly seeing a doctor&#8221;.  That would be a step up from seeing a doctor for five minutes to get a scrip, and more than adequate to safeguard against the incredibly low health risk of smoking marijuana, which of course can be vaporized or eaten when you&#8217;re not paying blackmarket prices to buy it.</p>
<p>Sane systems generate sane responses, and, in this case, an insane system is generating a nutty response.  What did you think would happen?</p>
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		<title>By: Eli</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/12/drug-policy/more-dispensaries-than-starbucks/comment-page-1/#comment-35896</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 07:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9702#comment-35896</guid>
		<description>K,
&quot;hypocrisy &amp; ridiculousness are often great vehicles of progress&quot;.  I love that - bumpersticker worthy.

And I think it goes to Frank&#039;s worry that the whole thing will end up hurting proper legalization.  The opposite may also be true: the public might increasingly see de facto legalization as having little negative impact in proportion to the cost of continued criminalization.  Hence, the silliness making its point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>K,<br />
&#8220;hypocrisy &amp; ridiculousness are often great vehicles of progress&#8221;.  I love that &#8211; bumpersticker worthy.</p>
<p>And I think it goes to Frank&#8217;s worry that the whole thing will end up hurting proper legalization.  The opposite may also be true: the public might increasingly see de facto legalization as having little negative impact in proportion to the cost of continued criminalization.  Hence, the silliness making its point.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Wilhoit</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/12/drug-policy/more-dispensaries-than-starbucks/comment-page-1/#comment-35881</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Wilhoit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 14:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9702#comment-35881</guid>
		<description>The kinds of abuses that you describe will quickly discredit the whole experiment, which is a shame, but not for the usual reasons.  It is mostly a shame because it is an irrelevant sideshow that provides yet another convenient excuse to avoid thinking through the real problem, which is addiction.

Some people are addicted to substances, others to behaviors, others to ideas.

All addicts, no matter what thing or what kind of thing they are addicted to, are totally unfit to participate in society.  In the general case, their perceptions, thoughts, words, and actions have no connection with reality.  In other words, they are insane and (in the legal term of art) incompetent.

But we, as a society, are entirely without courage, so we cannot call this for what it is, let alone decide what to do with insane and incompetent persons.  Then we pat ourselves on the back, with the sound of a thousand bass drums, and call ourselves tolerant, when all we are is lazy and cowardly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The kinds of abuses that you describe will quickly discredit the whole experiment, which is a shame, but not for the usual reasons.  It is mostly a shame because it is an irrelevant sideshow that provides yet another convenient excuse to avoid thinking through the real problem, which is addiction.</p>
<p>Some people are addicted to substances, others to behaviors, others to ideas.</p>
<p>All addicts, no matter what thing or what kind of thing they are addicted to, are totally unfit to participate in society.  In the general case, their perceptions, thoughts, words, and actions have no connection with reality.  In other words, they are insane and (in the legal term of art) incompetent.</p>
<p>But we, as a society, are entirely without courage, so we cannot call this for what it is, let alone decide what to do with insane and incompetent persons.  Then we pat ourselves on the back, with the sound of a thousand bass drums, and call ourselves tolerant, when all we are is lazy and cowardly.</p>
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		<title>By: Warren Terra</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/12/drug-policy/more-dispensaries-than-starbucks/comment-page-1/#comment-35880</link>
		<dc:creator>Warren Terra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 14:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9702#comment-35880</guid>
		<description>K, I&#039;m just worried that if comfortable people are protected in their marijuana use, there will be little impetus towarss addressing the criminalization of marijuana use by the less privileged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>K, I&#8217;m just worried that if comfortable people are protected in their marijuana use, there will be little impetus towarss addressing the criminalization of marijuana use by the less privileged.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Clay</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/12/drug-policy/more-dispensaries-than-starbucks/comment-page-1/#comment-35879</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Clay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 13:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9702#comment-35879</guid>
		<description>(Accurately) labeled THC/CBD ratios, pesticide-free guarantees, warning labels, and other protections we&#039;d like to see might be impossible to impose in a grow-your-own policy. For the individual user, GYO might end up worse than CA&#039;s system.

Obviously L.A.&#039;s city council didn&#039;t lift a finger to regulate for many years (assuming the DEA would do that for them), but what&#039;s stopping CA&#039;s state lawmakers from imposing sensible rules on the dispensaries? Surely a vague law that&#039;s open to gaming can be gamed from both sides.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Accurately) labeled THC/CBD ratios, pesticide-free guarantees, warning labels, and other protections we&#8217;d like to see might be impossible to impose in a grow-your-own policy. For the individual user, GYO might end up worse than CA&#8217;s system.</p>
<p>Obviously L.A.&#8217;s city council didn&#8217;t lift a finger to regulate for many years (assuming the DEA would do that for them), but what&#8217;s stopping CA&#8217;s state lawmakers from imposing sensible rules on the dispensaries? Surely a vague law that&#8217;s open to gaming can be gamed from both sides.</p>
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		<title>By: K</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/12/drug-policy/more-dispensaries-than-starbucks/comment-page-1/#comment-35874</link>
		<dc:creator>K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:36:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9702#comment-35874</guid>
		<description>The California arrangment may offend against a certain sense of order (I&#039;ll avoid the Freudian term), but hypocrisy &amp; ridiculousness are often great vehicles of progress.   Warren, I don&#039;t doubt some people may be better able than others to navigate the system.  Do you think it would be politically possible (or desirable) for &quot;kids&quot; - a group you name - to be granted legal access to marijuana on the same terms as adults?  Do I understand you to think it&#039;s no better for some, but not all, people to be free of an onerous law than for nobody to be free of it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The California arrangment may offend against a certain sense of order (I&#8217;ll avoid the Freudian term), but hypocrisy &amp; ridiculousness are often great vehicles of progress.   Warren, I don&#8217;t doubt some people may be better able than others to navigate the system.  Do you think it would be politically possible (or desirable) for &#8220;kids&#8221; &#8211; a group you name &#8211; to be granted legal access to marijuana on the same terms as adults?  Do I understand you to think it&#8217;s no better for some, but not all, people to be free of an onerous law than for nobody to be free of it?</p>
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		<title>By: Warren Terra</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/12/drug-policy/more-dispensaries-than-starbucks/comment-page-1/#comment-35872</link>
		<dc:creator>Warren Terra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 08:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9702#comment-35872</guid>
		<description>well, no, Henry, it isn&#039;t. My whole point was that nice middle-class people are now safe but all the persecution you decry is still on the books for people without money, who can&#039;t game the system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well, no, Henry, it isn&#8217;t. My whole point was that nice middle-class people are now safe but all the persecution you decry is still on the books for people without money, who can&#8217;t game the system.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/12/drug-policy/more-dispensaries-than-starbucks/comment-page-1/#comment-35871</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 07:18:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;the inequity and hypocrisy in &#039;medical marijuana&#039; is unacceptable.&quot;

It is inequitable and hypocritical, but it is far more acceptable than locking people up for using marijuana.  It is a move from total insanity to merely partial insanity.  It will also eventually lead to legalization; you can&#039;t expect sanity to arrive overnight.  So quit complaining about California and lets get medical marijuana legalized in other states.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the inequity and hypocrisy in &#8216;medical marijuana&#8217; is unacceptable.&#8221;</p>
<p>It is inequitable and hypocritical, but it is far more acceptable than locking people up for using marijuana.  It is a move from total insanity to merely partial insanity.  It will also eventually lead to legalization; you can&#8217;t expect sanity to arrive overnight.  So quit complaining about California and lets get medical marijuana legalized in other states.</p>
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		<title>By: wmd</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/12/drug-policy/more-dispensaries-than-starbucks/comment-page-1/#comment-35869</link>
		<dc:creator>wmd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 05:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>bay area dispensaries have retail sales licenses issued by their municipalities. The State Board of Equalization issued &lt;a href=&quot;www.boe.ca.gov/news/pdf/173.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; (pdf) Special Notices &lt;/a&gt; in June of 2007 answering questions about tax policies for medical marijuana sales.

Presumably indigent MS and chemotherapy patients get their recommendations from their attending physician as part of their ongoing care.

I agree with you that the medical gatekeeper is a bad policy and likely results in some substitution of alcohol.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bay area dispensaries have retail sales licenses issued by their municipalities. The State Board of Equalization issued <a href="www.boe.ca.gov/news/pdf/173.pdf" rel="nofollow"> (pdf) Special Notices </a> in June of 2007 answering questions about tax policies for medical marijuana sales.</p>
<p>Presumably indigent MS and chemotherapy patients get their recommendations from their attending physician as part of their ongoing care.</p>
<p>I agree with you that the medical gatekeeper is a bad policy and likely results in some substitution of alcohol.</p>
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		<title>By: Warren Terra</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/12/drug-policy/more-dispensaries-than-starbucks/comment-page-1/#comment-35867</link>
		<dc:creator>Warren Terra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 04:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9702#comment-35867</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Bay area dispensaries are collecting sales tax&lt;/blockquote&gt;Given the legal fiction that no &quot;sales&quot; are occurring, I wonder how this is managed.

I&#039;m ignorant about the truth behind the reputed benefits of medical marijuana for people really needing relief and not otherwise finding it (people with MS, chemotherapy patients, etcetera), but the ongoing farce that is &quot;medical marijuana&quot; in practice is just absurd, and unjust. I&#039;m in favor of legalizing marijuana for all sorts of reasons, including that I&#039;m given to believe it&#039;s fairly harmless as intoxicants go, but the inequity and hypocrisy in &quot;medical marijuana&quot; is unacceptable. It&#039;s deeply unfair that Mark&#039;s middle-class friend, who can afford $75 to pay off a corrupt doctor, gets legal protection for his recreational use, and can supply his wants cheaply and safely from a reputable supplier, while kids and people with less money are forced to deal with criminals or driven to use a more readily accessible intoxicant such as alcohol, which I&#039;m informed is more dangerous than marijuana.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Bay area dispensaries are collecting sales tax</p></blockquote>
<p>Given the legal fiction that no &#8220;sales&#8221; are occurring, I wonder how this is managed.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m ignorant about the truth behind the reputed benefits of medical marijuana for people really needing relief and not otherwise finding it (people with MS, chemotherapy patients, etcetera), but the ongoing farce that is &#8220;medical marijuana&#8221; in practice is just absurd, and unjust. I&#8217;m in favor of legalizing marijuana for all sorts of reasons, including that I&#8217;m given to believe it&#8217;s fairly harmless as intoxicants go, but the inequity and hypocrisy in &#8220;medical marijuana&#8221; is unacceptable. It&#8217;s deeply unfair that Mark&#8217;s middle-class friend, who can afford $75 to pay off a corrupt doctor, gets legal protection for his recreational use, and can supply his wants cheaply and safely from a reputable supplier, while kids and people with less money are forced to deal with criminals or driven to use a more readily accessible intoxicant such as alcohol, which I&#8217;m informed is more dangerous than marijuana.</p>
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		<title>By: wmd</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/12/drug-policy/more-dispensaries-than-starbucks/comment-page-1/#comment-35862</link>
		<dc:creator>wmd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 04:38:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9702#comment-35862</guid>
		<description>Bay area dispensaries are collecting sales tax and in Oakland a &lt;a href=&quot;http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jul/22/local/me-pot-tax22&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; special tax of $18 per $1000 &lt;/a&gt; in gross sales.

It&#039;s uncommon to have assays of THC/CBD/CBN at any dispensary I&#039;ve visited (all in the bay area). Some information on strain (indica/sativa) and qualitative effects is usually available.

Recommendations amount to a license to possess and purchase in California. Opponents warned about this very thing happening prior to Proposition 215 passing, pointing out that Dennis Peron&#039;s &quot;any condition&quot; language allowed recommendations for hangnails. Voters passed Proposition 215 anyway.

Next year voters in California will have the opportunity to remove penalties for adult possession. Former SF Mayor and Speaker of the CA State Assembly Willie Brown &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2009/09/27/BA4019SMHB.DTL&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; expects it to pass &lt;/a&gt;, explicitly pointing to the ease of getting a recommendation as a factor in the change of public opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bay area dispensaries are collecting sales tax and in Oakland a <a href="http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jul/22/local/me-pot-tax22" rel="nofollow"> special tax of $18 per $1000 </a> in gross sales.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s uncommon to have assays of THC/CBD/CBN at any dispensary I&#8217;ve visited (all in the bay area). Some information on strain (indica/sativa) and qualitative effects is usually available.</p>
<p>Recommendations amount to a license to possess and purchase in California. Opponents warned about this very thing happening prior to Proposition 215 passing, pointing out that Dennis Peron&#8217;s &#8220;any condition&#8221; language allowed recommendations for hangnails. Voters passed Proposition 215 anyway.</p>
<p>Next year voters in California will have the opportunity to remove penalties for adult possession. Former SF Mayor and Speaker of the CA State Assembly Willie Brown <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2009/09/27/BA4019SMHB.DTL" rel="nofollow"> expects it to pass </a>, explicitly pointing to the ease of getting a recommendation as a factor in the change of public opinion.</p>
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