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	<title>Comments on: Paying for higher education</title>
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	<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/</link>
	<description>Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.</description>
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		<title>By: News on the UC Budget &#171; UC Berkeley Budget Crisis</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35504</link>
		<dc:creator>News on the UC Budget &#171; UC Berkeley Budget Crisis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 23:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35504</guid>
		<description>[...] Paying for higher education, Michael O’Hare’s blog, November 25, 2009. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Paying for higher education, Michael O’Hare’s blog, November 25, 2009. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Milan Moravec</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35294</link>
		<dc:creator>Milan Moravec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 00:14:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35294</guid>
		<description>$ 3 Million Extravagant Spending by Yudof/Birgeneau for Consultants - Work Can Be Done Internally.
Save $3,000,000 for teaching students. Do the work internally with the resources of the UCB Academic Senate Leadership (C. Kutz/ F. Doyle), the world – class UCB faculty and staff, &amp;  UCB Chancellor’s stable of blotted staff (G. Breslauer, N. Brostrom, F. Yeary, P. Hoffman, C. Holmes etc) &amp; President Yudof.
President Yudof has a UCB Chancellor that should do the high paid work he is paid for instead of hiring an East Coast consulting firm to do the work of his job. ‘World class’ smart executives like Chancellor Birgeneau need to do the analysis, hard work and make the difficult tough decisions to identify inefficiencies!
Where do consulting firms like Bain ($3,000,000 consultants) get their recommendations? 
From interviewing the senior management that hired them and will be approving their monthly consultant fees and expense reports. Remember the nationally known auditing firm who said the right things and submitted recommendations that senior management wanted to hear and fooled government oversight agencies and the public? Impartial consultants never bite the hands(Birgeneau/Yeary) that feed them. 
Mr. Birgeneau&#039;s performance management work accountabilities include &quot;inspiring innovation and leading change.&quot;  This involves &quot;defining outcomes, energizing others at all levels and ensuring continuing commitment.&quot;  Instead of demonstrating his leadership by fulfill the senior management work of his job, Mr. Birgeneau outsourced them.  Doesn&#039;t he engage University of California and University of California Berkeley (UCB) people at all levels to help examine the budget and recommend the necessary $150 million trims?  Hasn&#039;t he talked to Cornell and the University of North Carolina - which also hired Bain -- about best practices and recommendations that might apply to UCB cuts?
No wonder the faculty, staff, Senate &amp; Assembly and Californians are angry and suspicious.  Three million dollars is a high price for students and Californians to pay when a knowledgeable ‘world-class’ UCB Chancellor and his bloated staff are not doing the work of their jobs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>$ 3 Million Extravagant Spending by Yudof/Birgeneau for Consultants &#8211; Work Can Be Done Internally.<br />
Save $3,000,000 for teaching students. Do the work internally with the resources of the UCB Academic Senate Leadership (C. Kutz/ F. Doyle), the world – class UCB faculty and staff, &amp;  UCB Chancellor’s stable of blotted staff (G. Breslauer, N. Brostrom, F. Yeary, P. Hoffman, C. Holmes etc) &amp; President Yudof.<br />
President Yudof has a UCB Chancellor that should do the high paid work he is paid for instead of hiring an East Coast consulting firm to do the work of his job. ‘World class’ smart executives like Chancellor Birgeneau need to do the analysis, hard work and make the difficult tough decisions to identify inefficiencies!<br />
Where do consulting firms like Bain ($3,000,000 consultants) get their recommendations?<br />
From interviewing the senior management that hired them and will be approving their monthly consultant fees and expense reports. Remember the nationally known auditing firm who said the right things and submitted recommendations that senior management wanted to hear and fooled government oversight agencies and the public? Impartial consultants never bite the hands(Birgeneau/Yeary) that feed them.<br />
Mr. Birgeneau&#8217;s performance management work accountabilities include &#8220;inspiring innovation and leading change.&#8221;  This involves &#8220;defining outcomes, energizing others at all levels and ensuring continuing commitment.&#8221;  Instead of demonstrating his leadership by fulfill the senior management work of his job, Mr. Birgeneau outsourced them.  Doesn&#8217;t he engage University of California and University of California Berkeley (UCB) people at all levels to help examine the budget and recommend the necessary $150 million trims?  Hasn&#8217;t he talked to Cornell and the University of North Carolina &#8211; which also hired Bain &#8212; about best practices and recommendations that might apply to UCB cuts?<br />
No wonder the faculty, staff, Senate &amp; Assembly and Californians are angry and suspicious.  Three million dollars is a high price for students and Californians to pay when a knowledgeable ‘world-class’ UCB Chancellor and his bloated staff are not doing the work of their jobs.</p>
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		<title>By: H</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35244</link>
		<dc:creator>H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 07:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35244</guid>
		<description>Gosh, I went to Berkeley when it was free.  And, I value my experience there greatly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gosh, I went to Berkeley when it was free.  And, I value my experience there greatly.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35242</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 06:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35242</guid>
		<description>&quot;But a lot is also consumed by his friends and family, because educated people are more interesting and fun to be around.&quot; Spoken like a true Harvard snob. Plumbers, nurses, firemen, and other white trash obviously aren&#039;t worth talking to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But a lot is also consumed by his friends and family, because educated people are more interesting and fun to be around.&#8221; Spoken like a true Harvard snob. Plumbers, nurses, firemen, and other white trash obviously aren&#8217;t worth talking to.</p>
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		<title>By: paul</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35228</link>
		<dc:creator>paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 20:17:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35228</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s kind of interesting that almost the entire period of explosion in California high-tech industry and real-estate prices came during the period when the state had effectively decided to stop paying for its human-capital infrastructure but was still garnering the advantage of previous decades of investment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s kind of interesting that almost the entire period of explosion in California high-tech industry and real-estate prices came during the period when the state had effectively decided to stop paying for its human-capital infrastructure but was still garnering the advantage of previous decades of investment.</p>
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		<title>By: Interesting News From Elsewhere &#171; La Flog</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35166</link>
		<dc:creator>Interesting News From Elsewhere &#171; La Flog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35166</guid>
		<description>[...] Michael O&#8217;Hare has a really good post over at The Reality-Based Community about paying for higher education. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Michael O&#8217;Hare has a really good post over at The Reality-Based Community about paying for higher education. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dave schutz</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35157</link>
		<dc:creator>dave schutz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 02:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35157</guid>
		<description>Well, Mike, you are just like George Herbert Walker Bush, except that the vegetable which he slammed, and which got him excluded from polite society, was broccoli.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Mike, you are just like George Herbert Walker Bush, except that the vegetable which he slammed, and which got him excluded from polite society, was broccoli.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Bellmore</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35154</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Bellmore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 00:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35154</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;If you think brussel sprouts taste bad,&quot;&lt;/i&gt; It&#039;s your genes. There&#039;s even a test strip for it, to distinguish brussel sprout haters from lovers. Google &quot;PTC taste blindness&quot;.

Me? I love &#039;em, especially roasted with a bit of rosemary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;If you think brussel sprouts taste bad,&#8221;</i> It&#8217;s your genes. There&#8217;s even a test strip for it, to distinguish brussel sprout haters from lovers. Google &#8220;PTC taste blindness&#8221;.</p>
<p>Me? I love &#8216;em, especially roasted with a bit of rosemary.</p>
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		<title>By: in medias res</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35147</link>
		<dc:creator>in medias res</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35147</guid>
		<description>Hope but don&#039;t expect this to get figured out sometime soon. I just paid tuition for an entire semester for my son to take the last class he needs to graduate because classes are now being offered in alternating semesters, upping the number of years to graduate as well as, of course, the fees to pay. I&#039;m lucky I could do it for him - many can&#039;t. That would have given him the option to drop out and work if he could find a job and try and get readmitted into an over-impacted system before the graduation requirements changed.
Brussels sprouts are divine - here&#039;s how we do them:
      
•	Cut sprouts in half down the middle
•	Heat some olive oil and a little butter in a skillet on medium low
•	Place sprouts face down in one layer
•	Sprinkle a handful of pine nuts on top 
•	Go have a glass of wine
•	In about 15 minutes, lift out sprouts, sprinkle with salt and pepper
•	Toss the now-golden nuts, butter and sprouts together.
Bottoms of sprouts will be brown and sweet and the tops keep their crunch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hope but don&#8217;t expect this to get figured out sometime soon. I just paid tuition for an entire semester for my son to take the last class he needs to graduate because classes are now being offered in alternating semesters, upping the number of years to graduate as well as, of course, the fees to pay. I&#8217;m lucky I could do it for him &#8211; many can&#8217;t. That would have given him the option to drop out and work if he could find a job and try and get readmitted into an over-impacted system before the graduation requirements changed.<br />
Brussels sprouts are divine &#8211; here&#8217;s how we do them:</p>
<p>•	Cut sprouts in half down the middle<br />
•	Heat some olive oil and a little butter in a skillet on medium low<br />
•	Place sprouts face down in one layer<br />
•	Sprinkle a handful of pine nuts on top<br />
•	Go have a glass of wine<br />
•	In about 15 minutes, lift out sprouts, sprinkle with salt and pepper<br />
•	Toss the now-golden nuts, butter and sprouts together.<br />
Bottoms of sprouts will be brown and sweet and the tops keep their crunch.</p>
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		<title>By: James Wimberley</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35141</link>
		<dc:creator>James Wimberley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35141</guid>
		<description>MH post:&quot;A society could probably set itself up with research institutions separate from teaching-focused colleges, but we have chosen a different system, and it’s not clear that the former recipe would really work; can a university that does no research really train the PhDs who will do it in a think tank or industrial lab?&quot;

This experiment has been tried, by Josef Stalin, Napoleon Bonaparte and their heirs, justified to some extent by the eighteenth-century experience of go-ahead academies and stagnant universities. It wasn&#039;t a disaster, but both France and the ex-Soviet empire have concluded that it works less well than dual-purpose (Humboldtian) universities. The French CNRS is now SFIK largely a way of funding university-based research teams. Governments are bad at picking winners in research, and a competitive arms-length allocation of research funds is more efficient. The arm&#039;s-length part implies basing researchers in largely autonomous institutions, which universities are by historical accident, aka tradition. 
 
The practical case here is stronger than the theory, for the original Humboldt argument is idealist b/s. My debating points are: 
1. Research training is a part of education, and has to be delivered by people who are practising the trade they are teaching. (You can of course hive this function off into specialist academies; but these are still educational institutions.) 
2. During their tertiary education, it&#039;s important for as many students as possible to be exposed, even briefly, to the practice of genuine research (the core of truth in Humboldtian idealism): an argument against the specialised academies.
3. Research is fun and should pay an accountability tax to teaching and public information - it doesn&#039;t matter which, and different researchers have different comparative advantages in the spectrum. The converse is not generally true. 
4. The vice of teaching is fossilisation; the vice of research is narrowness. A well-run dual system on Madisonian lines has a reasonable chance of limiting the damage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MH post:&#8221;A society could probably set itself up with research institutions separate from teaching-focused colleges, but we have chosen a different system, and it’s not clear that the former recipe would really work; can a university that does no research really train the PhDs who will do it in a think tank or industrial lab?&#8221;</p>
<p>This experiment has been tried, by Josef Stalin, Napoleon Bonaparte and their heirs, justified to some extent by the eighteenth-century experience of go-ahead academies and stagnant universities. It wasn&#8217;t a disaster, but both France and the ex-Soviet empire have concluded that it works less well than dual-purpose (Humboldtian) universities. The French CNRS is now SFIK largely a way of funding university-based research teams. Governments are bad at picking winners in research, and a competitive arms-length allocation of research funds is more efficient. The arm&#8217;s-length part implies basing researchers in largely autonomous institutions, which universities are by historical accident, aka tradition. </p>
<p>The practical case here is stronger than the theory, for the original Humboldt argument is idealist b/s. My debating points are:<br />
1. Research training is a part of education, and has to be delivered by people who are practising the trade they are teaching. (You can of course hive this function off into specialist academies; but these are still educational institutions.)<br />
2. During their tertiary education, it&#8217;s important for as many students as possible to be exposed, even briefly, to the practice of genuine research (the core of truth in Humboldtian idealism): an argument against the specialised academies.<br />
3. Research is fun and should pay an accountability tax to teaching and public information &#8211; it doesn&#8217;t matter which, and different researchers have different comparative advantages in the spectrum. The converse is not generally true.<br />
4. The vice of teaching is fossilisation; the vice of research is narrowness. A well-run dual system on Madisonian lines has a reasonable chance of limiting the damage.</p>
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		<title>By: Eli Rabett</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35137</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli Rabett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35137</guid>
		<description>Allow Eli to suggest something new, actually it is old, going back to Sherman Barber the then (1960s) president of CCNY, which WAS free.  Barber said that anyone who graduated from college should be subject to a surtax which would be used to fund higher education.  That tests everyone&#039;s assumptions and would support higher education.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Allow Eli to suggest something new, actually it is old, going back to Sherman Barber the then (1960s) president of CCNY, which WAS free.  Barber said that anyone who graduated from college should be subject to a surtax which would be used to fund higher education.  That tests everyone&#8217;s assumptions and would support higher education.</p>
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		<title>By: elliottg</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35134</link>
		<dc:creator>elliottg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35134</guid>
		<description>That should be &quot;underestimate&quot; your replaceability and &quot;oversestimate&quot; your unique value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That should be &#8220;underestimate&#8221; your replaceability and &#8220;oversestimate&#8221; your unique value.</p>
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		<title>By: elliottg</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35133</link>
		<dc:creator>elliottg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:05:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35133</guid>
		<description>Pricing for higher education is going to have to be rethought.  With the technology available to deliver information so quickly and online archives of classes easily accessible (ocw.mit.edu or less comprehensively webcast.berkeley.ecu), the only reason to pay so much for a higher education is the signal it sends.  (Most of the value of higher education is achieved at admission.) 

vince52:  Please go Galt.  You overestimate your easy replaceability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pricing for higher education is going to have to be rethought.  With the technology available to deliver information so quickly and online archives of classes easily accessible (ocw.mit.edu or less comprehensively webcast.berkeley.ecu), the only reason to pay so much for a higher education is the signal it sends.  (Most of the value of higher education is achieved at admission.) </p>
<p>vince52:  Please go Galt.  You overestimate your easy replaceability.</p>
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		<title>By: vince52</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35131</link>
		<dc:creator>vince52</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35131</guid>
		<description>&quot;They are making the transition to full-price education quickly, ignorantly, and heartlessly under the malign influence of leadership, especially Republican Party leadership, that has made an ignorant and idiotic worship of markets and private wealth into an ideology, and abetted by catastrophic constitutional decisions through an initiative process that was the solution to a problem Californians had at the beginning of the last century.&quot;

So a tuition increase of $2-3K a year by a deeply bankrupt state is &quot;quick, ignorant, and heartless&quot;?  How much is the state subsidy per UC student?  20K?  I admit I don&#039;t know the number, but I am about to finish paying for three non-California college educations for my California kids, and I can tell you that I paid at least $25K per student per year for the privilege of not sending them to a place where Michael O&#039;Hare teaches.

And how much higher are my taxes supposed to be, Mr. Public Policy Knowitall?  At least half of my income goes to federal and state income  taxes, Social Security, Medicare, property taxes and sales taxes. At some point earners start to lose interest in earning more, and we&#039;re close to that point.

Your post makes many true and insightful points, yet devolves into a ridiculous partisan tantrum. I&#039;m left with the sense that California&#039;s decisionmakers must have been sitting in your classroom for the past few decades.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They are making the transition to full-price education quickly, ignorantly, and heartlessly under the malign influence of leadership, especially Republican Party leadership, that has made an ignorant and idiotic worship of markets and private wealth into an ideology, and abetted by catastrophic constitutional decisions through an initiative process that was the solution to a problem Californians had at the beginning of the last century.&#8221;</p>
<p>So a tuition increase of $2-3K a year by a deeply bankrupt state is &#8220;quick, ignorant, and heartless&#8221;?  How much is the state subsidy per UC student?  20K?  I admit I don&#8217;t know the number, but I am about to finish paying for three non-California college educations for my California kids, and I can tell you that I paid at least $25K per student per year for the privilege of not sending them to a place where Michael O&#8217;Hare teaches.</p>
<p>And how much higher are my taxes supposed to be, Mr. Public Policy Knowitall?  At least half of my income goes to federal and state income  taxes, Social Security, Medicare, property taxes and sales taxes. At some point earners start to lose interest in earning more, and we&#8217;re close to that point.</p>
<p>Your post makes many true and insightful points, yet devolves into a ridiculous partisan tantrum. I&#8217;m left with the sense that California&#8217;s decisionmakers must have been sitting in your classroom for the past few decades.</p>
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		<title>By: K T Cat</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35130</link>
		<dc:creator>K T Cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 14:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35130</guid>
		<description>&quot;My generation and the next owe my students a big transfer of wealth&quot; - dude, our generation just spent everything left to us and everything your students will earn for the first decade or so of their professional lives.  That&#039;s what a $12T debt means, you know.  You might want to look into earning what you get instead of just voting for having it given to you by magic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My generation and the next owe my students a big transfer of wealth&#8221; &#8211; dude, our generation just spent everything left to us and everything your students will earn for the first decade or so of their professional lives.  That&#8217;s what a $12T debt means, you know.  You might want to look into earning what you get instead of just voting for having it given to you by magic.</p>
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		<title>By: dave schutz</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35128</link>
		<dc:creator>dave schutz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 13:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35128</guid>
		<description>Megan McArdle is with me, and Michael Weissman, on the important Brussels Sprouts issue: http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/11/when_the_public_coffers_run_dr.php.  In our house, what we do is to shred them in a food processor, then braise them in butter until soft, add some heavy cream, salt, pepper.  Try it, you might like it.

Wonderful post, thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Megan McArdle is with me, and Michael Weissman, on the important Brussels Sprouts issue: <a href="http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/11/when_the_public_coffers_run_dr.php" rel="nofollow">http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/11/when_the_public_coffers_run_dr.php</a>.  In our house, what we do is to shred them in a food processor, then braise them in butter until soft, add some heavy cream, salt, pepper.  Try it, you might like it.</p>
<p>Wonderful post, thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Roscoe</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35127</link>
		<dc:creator>Roscoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 13:32:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35127</guid>
		<description>If you think brussel sprouts taste bad, you aren&#039;t doing them right.  Try quartering them, and cooking them in a heavy skillet.  Add a quarter inch of water to the pan, and cook (steam) them until the water is gone (watch carefully so they don&#039;t burn).  When the sprouts dry out, add olive oil and crushed garlic and saute them, salt and pepper to taste.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you think brussel sprouts taste bad, you aren&#8217;t doing them right.  Try quartering them, and cooking them in a heavy skillet.  Add a quarter inch of water to the pan, and cook (steam) them until the water is gone (watch carefully so they don&#8217;t burn).  When the sprouts dry out, add olive oil and crushed garlic and saute them, salt and pepper to taste.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Macker</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35126</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Macker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 13:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35126</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;They are making the transition to full-price education quickly, ignorantly, and heartlessly under the malign influence of leadership, especially Republican Party leadership, that has made an ignorant and idiotic worship of markets and private wealth into an ideology, and abetted by catastrophic constitutional decisions through an initiative process that was the solution to a problem Californians had at the beginning of the last century.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

I see, Democrats had nothing to do with this mess.  Actually Democrats have turned a hatred of free markets and the results thereof into an ideology.   They were the main contributors to the economic policies that let to the bubble an bust of the bubble.

BTW, markets work and the government interventions into markets we&#039;ve had over the past 20 years or more are finally bearing fruits.

Here&#039;s a little tidbit written over 60 years ago by someone who has, according to you, made a worship of markets: &quot;Government-guaranteed home mortgages, especially when a negligible down payment or no down payment whatever is required, inevitably mean more bad loans than otherwise. They force the general taxpayer to subsidize the bad risks and to defray the losses. They encourage people to “buy” houses that they cannot really afford. They tend eventually to bring about an oversupply of houses as compared with other things. They temporarily overstimulate building, raise the cost of building for everybody (including the buyers of the homes with the guaranteed mortgages), and may mislead the building industry into an eventually costly overexpansion. In brief, in they long run they do not increase overall national production but encourage malinvestment.&quot; - Henry Hazlitt

Sounds like his &quot;ignorance&quot; predicted things a lot better than your enlightened hatred of free markets.

That&#039;s just the tip of the iceberg in terms of predicting this mess.   Government has been following almost every possible stupid economic policy it could over the past twenty years and continues to do so.   Using the exact bad policies that got us into this mess to try to get us out.

I happen to know a hell of a lot more than you on economics, and for the most part Republicans have very little faith in free markets.   They too go along with you in an &quot;ignorant and idiotic worship of&quot; the state.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;My generation and the next owe my students a big transfer of wealth entrusted to us by our parents and grandparents for that purpose;&quot;&lt;i&gt;

The same argument could be used to support any state system, including communism, regardless of how economically ignorant the model.   Also,  you in fact misunderstand the nature of capital if you thing the school system itself is some kind of communal aggregation of savings that can be consumed over time.   There is capital inherent in the system but it is in many cases private, and most of in requires a true bank of savings, or a continual influx of resources to run.   For example, knowledge is a form of capital, but it is held privately by teachers, and cannot be milked without feeding those teachers with accumulated capital.    They need to eat now.

There is no pool of capital saved up by our parents and grandparents upon which to feed the teachers and heat the schools.   In fact, the entire country is being run as a giant ponzi scheme, where our parents and grandparents have been living of a pool of capital being saved by their children for their own retirement.   Once those children reach retirement age that pool of real capital will have been consumed and we will be left with the government printing presses to feed our aging population.    Good luck eating federal reserve notes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;They are making the transition to full-price education quickly, ignorantly, and heartlessly under the malign influence of leadership, especially Republican Party leadership, that has made an ignorant and idiotic worship of markets and private wealth into an ideology, and abetted by catastrophic constitutional decisions through an initiative process that was the solution to a problem Californians had at the beginning of the last century.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I see, Democrats had nothing to do with this mess.  Actually Democrats have turned a hatred of free markets and the results thereof into an ideology.   They were the main contributors to the economic policies that let to the bubble an bust of the bubble.</p>
<p>BTW, markets work and the government interventions into markets we&#8217;ve had over the past 20 years or more are finally bearing fruits.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a little tidbit written over 60 years ago by someone who has, according to you, made a worship of markets: &#8220;Government-guaranteed home mortgages, especially when a negligible down payment or no down payment whatever is required, inevitably mean more bad loans than otherwise. They force the general taxpayer to subsidize the bad risks and to defray the losses. They encourage people to “buy” houses that they cannot really afford. They tend eventually to bring about an oversupply of houses as compared with other things. They temporarily overstimulate building, raise the cost of building for everybody (including the buyers of the homes with the guaranteed mortgages), and may mislead the building industry into an eventually costly overexpansion. In brief, in they long run they do not increase overall national production but encourage malinvestment.&#8221; &#8211; Henry Hazlitt</p>
<p>Sounds like his &#8220;ignorance&#8221; predicted things a lot better than your enlightened hatred of free markets.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s just the tip of the iceberg in terms of predicting this mess.   Government has been following almost every possible stupid economic policy it could over the past twenty years and continues to do so.   Using the exact bad policies that got us into this mess to try to get us out.</p>
<p>I happen to know a hell of a lot more than you on economics, and for the most part Republicans have very little faith in free markets.   They too go along with you in an &#8220;ignorant and idiotic worship of&#8221; the state.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;My generation and the next owe my students a big transfer of wealth entrusted to us by our parents and grandparents for that purpose;&#8221;</i><i></p>
<p>The same argument could be used to support any state system, including communism, regardless of how economically ignorant the model.   Also,  you in fact misunderstand the nature of capital if you thing the school system itself is some kind of communal aggregation of savings that can be consumed over time.   There is capital inherent in the system but it is in many cases private, and most of in requires a true bank of savings, or a continual influx of resources to run.   For example, knowledge is a form of capital, but it is held privately by teachers, and cannot be milked without feeding those teachers with accumulated capital.    They need to eat now.</p>
<p>There is no pool of capital saved up by our parents and grandparents upon which to feed the teachers and heat the schools.   In fact, the entire country is being run as a giant ponzi scheme, where our parents and grandparents have been living of a pool of capital being saved by their children for their own retirement.   Once those children reach retirement age that pool of real capital will have been consumed and we will be left with the government printing presses to feed our aging population.    Good luck eating federal reserve notes.</i></p>
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		<title>By: Michael O'Hare</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35120</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael O'Hare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 04:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35120</guid>
		<description>Only to about a quarter of you, Michael; it&#039;s genetic! https://www.23andme.com/health/Bitter-Taste-Perception/ 
Do you get cool trivia facts at the RBC, or what?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only to about a quarter of you, Michael; it&#8217;s genetic! <a href="https://www.23andme.com/health/Bitter-Taste-Perception/" rel="nofollow">https://www.23andme.com/health/Bitter-Taste-Perception/</a><br />
Do you get cool trivia facts at the RBC, or what?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Weissman</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35114</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Weissman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35114</guid>
		<description>Brussel sprouts &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; taste good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brussel sprouts <i>do</i> taste good.</p>
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		<title>By: marcel</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35110</link>
		<dc:creator>marcel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35110</guid>
		<description>Generation K: Is that the one that Tom Brokaw labeled &#039;The Greatest Generation&#039;, or is that their children.  In either case, Heckuva job, Brownie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Generation K: Is that the one that Tom Brokaw labeled &#8216;The Greatest Generation&#8217;, or is that their children.  In either case, Heckuva job, Brownie.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Waldmann</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35108</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Waldmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35108</guid>
		<description>Brilliant as always.  I would stress more the externalities.  Teach one person at a University and many will learn from her or him.  

Also, look, U Cal is huge and Cal state is huger and the community colleges add up.  The logic of charging full tuition is appropriate for a small price taking benificent entity.  By subsidizing university education California can drive down the return to a university degree and obtain a more equal income distribution.  Any entity with market power should consider the effect of its actions on prices and the Californian public education behemoth has a lot of market power in the California labor market.

I&#039;d say basing aid on loans is a mistake.  My view is that labor income is not well correlated with the social usefulness of labor.  In fact, I think that people choose points tangent to an indifference curve such that lower income is compensated by a greater sense of social usefulness *and* that their perceptions of social usefulness are not negatively correlated with social usefulness.  You seem to agree as you mentioned poets and public defenders.  A poll tax makes people care more about income.  So does a loan contract.  

I&#039;d go for a system where in lieu of tuition the state requires repayment proportional to income (a sort of consensual income surtax).  That&#039;s because I think the incentive effects of a flat tax are better than the incentive effects of a poll tax totally aside from the desirability of equal incomes.  Oh and, by the way, with my approach the post repayment plan incomes of university graduates would be more equal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brilliant as always.  I would stress more the externalities.  Teach one person at a University and many will learn from her or him.  </p>
<p>Also, look, U Cal is huge and Cal state is huger and the community colleges add up.  The logic of charging full tuition is appropriate for a small price taking benificent entity.  By subsidizing university education California can drive down the return to a university degree and obtain a more equal income distribution.  Any entity with market power should consider the effect of its actions on prices and the Californian public education behemoth has a lot of market power in the California labor market.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say basing aid on loans is a mistake.  My view is that labor income is not well correlated with the social usefulness of labor.  In fact, I think that people choose points tangent to an indifference curve such that lower income is compensated by a greater sense of social usefulness *and* that their perceptions of social usefulness are not negatively correlated with social usefulness.  You seem to agree as you mentioned poets and public defenders.  A poll tax makes people care more about income.  So does a loan contract.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;d go for a system where in lieu of tuition the state requires repayment proportional to income (a sort of consensual income surtax).  That&#8217;s because I think the incentive effects of a flat tax are better than the incentive effects of a poll tax totally aside from the desirability of equal incomes.  Oh and, by the way, with my approach the post repayment plan incomes of university graduates would be more equal.</p>
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		<title>By: Warren Terra</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35107</link>
		<dc:creator>Warren Terra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:32:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35107</guid>
		<description>It is possible to separate research and education: any number of decent, even good undergraduate schools don&#039;t do grad degrees, and some excellent research schools only do grad degrees (e.g. UCSF).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is possible to separate research and education: any number of decent, even good undergraduate schools don&#8217;t do grad degrees, and some excellent research schools only do grad degrees (e.g. UCSF).</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Schwartz</title>
		<link>http://www.samefacts.com/2009/11/california-politics/paying-for-higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-35105</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Schwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.samefacts.com/?p=9501#comment-35105</guid>
		<description>I like what you say; and I think we are already past that point you describe as a higher ed system with &quot;full-cost tuition,...but no fair loading unreasonable amounts of research cost into it&quot;

According to my calculations in 2007 we had undergraduate fees at UC set at 100% of the actual per-student cost of providing undergraduate education. Since then fees have jumped a lot higher. That calculation was based on an earlier faculty time-use study and it included the faculty&#039;s own assessment of how much research contributed to instruction.

Would some other experts please look into this and see what they think of the calculation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like what you say; and I think we are already past that point you describe as a higher ed system with &#8220;full-cost tuition,&#8230;but no fair loading unreasonable amounts of research cost into it&#8221;</p>
<p>According to my calculations in 2007 we had undergraduate fees at UC set at 100% of the actual per-student cost of providing undergraduate education. Since then fees have jumped a lot higher. That calculation was based on an earlier faculty time-use study and it included the faculty&#8217;s own assessment of how much research contributed to instruction.</p>
<p>Would some other experts please look into this and see what they think of the calculation?</p>
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